“The enemies of intellectual liberty always try to present their case as a plea for discipline versus individualism. The issue truth-versus-untruth is as far as possible kept in the background.”
— George Orwell
Milton Friedman - Collectivism
I'm Stupid I'm Stupid
Ayn Rand - Individualism
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It is an error to say the right has *always* been associated with individualism more than the left has, because of Overton window shifts. Allow me to explain.
There are essentially three philosophies at play here:
1. The belief that government should wield power to benefit groups that have historically less successful at the expense of those who are more successful;
2. The belief that government should wield power to benefit groups that have historically more successful at the expense of those who are less successful;
3. The belief that government should not wield power to benefit some groups of people at the expense of other groups of people.
Of those three philosophies, only one is properly individualistic, and that is the last one, which has historically been called liberalism. The other two are leftism and rightism, respectively.
As the popularity of these three philosophies changes over time, the tendency is for individualists to form a loose alliance with the weaker of the right or the left, to stand up against the common foe. For instance, in the current political landscape, individualists align with the right against the more threatening left. However, it is only through guilt by association and looseness with terminology that one might label someone like Carl Benjamin right-wing, which leftist propaganda certainly does. It's not like individualists tend to agree with Richard Spencer on everything, but the strategy of alliance makes both, for the moment, on the same anti-left team.
However, the Overton Window has not always been this far left. Indeed, that our pejorative for leftists to this day is "liberal" belies a previous alliance between a weaker left and individualist liberals against a stronger right. Right-wing propaganda in those times (and to a certain extent, still) would falsely conflate liberals with leftists because they were both enemies of the right-wing establishment.
The left being individualists ("left" actually being a placeholder for: Social Justice Warriors/intersectional feminists/postmodernists) indeed works inside their irrational concepts/framework because the progressive stack/victimhood Olympics is an infinite regress that will inevitably lead to "individualism" because there's no smaller denomination of specialized oppression than the individual.
The "logic" is sound when taken inside their retarded ideology, but *obviously* not in actual IRL reality.
The fatal flaw of the philosophy laid out in the clip at the end of the video, as the narrator says himself, is that it applies to the relation of equals to equals.
Which is the fundamental problem as, obviously, communists and similar filth like Unionists and leftists are inferior, always.
Even when one isn't dealing with one of those types of inferior degenerates, it's pretty rare that you're really dealing equal to equal, that's pretty much the exception.
You're unfortunately assuming that leftist filth can think for themselves... Of course not, they're collectivist subhuman garbage and as such they only deserve to die in the most protracted painful way, agonizing way possible.
The left stands for individualism if you redefine 'individualism' as some sort of freaky ass hive mind. XD
I was tearing this communist up in a discord recently and you know you've won when you get them to drop the mask, defend communism directly, and cease arguing your points because 'They don't think you know what communism is' Well, kind of difficult since the bastards who push it keep changing what EVERYTHING means, I don't think they do either anymore. XD
Since you casually brought up the political compass: framing left vs right the way you do draws the left-right axis as the diagonal from authoritarian left to libertarian right. This is just the mirror image of what the fool you're reacting to comes from: left to right as the diagonal from libertarian left to authoritarian right.
In the compass itself, both Hitler and Stalin are centrists and insanely authoritarian. No dictator or mass murderer of any kind are to be found in either libertarian quadrant. This is where we meet. Love your content.
Not to say that the political compass is be all end all, but both diagonals are plain foolish.
When I was a teen people liked to point out that if Hitler took over the US the first thing he would do is kill off the people in the neo-nazi groups. The progressives agreed, the didn't understand why but they agreed because they hated the neo-nazis. But It would be the same reason that if Stalin took over the US he would kill off all the Communist protesters. These groups can be useful to get into power but once Hitler or Stalin take over these groups get disillusioned when they see true communism/socialism. The activist have to be culled so all that is left is the docile masses.
Individualism and collectivism have right leaning a left leaning interpretations. There is no clean equivalents between these concepts. This is why people make mitakes such as the one you describe. Left and right are vague abstracts with little meaning or use.
Linking ANY ideology or partisan beliefs to individualism is asinine. Whether those beliefs be left or right. Sure the left is collectivist. But you're on bath salt or plain disingenuous if you don't acknowledge the loud blatant conformity demanded by the right:
1. Not native to the collective?: scram
2. Not religious, like the collective?: You can't even run for office
3. Don't support our wars? You don't support our troops, hippie?
4. Pretty sure it's the right pushing traditionalism. Don't think the left cares if MGTOW conforms to the collective.
5. Left: Have sex for sex sake
Right: Have sex to procreate for the collective.
Again, the left has their slogans and rules and conformist bullshit too, clearly. Yet, MGTOW is the closest to a group preaching actual individuality. I personally don't consider it partisan at all. I'd be curious to know how and why that's erroneous.
It’s odd that you say this came from the mouth of a leftish centrist. I know some NRx/tradcon/far right ortho Christian types who are constantly saying that the left stands for “radical individualism.”
TFM's comment about giving it another name at 3:33 got me thinking about this video where Karen Straughan posed the question of whether or not Feminism could ever be defeated in one of her monologues, and what came next was a long pause as she stared away. First she looked thoughtful, then wistful, then depressed as she realized that all Feminists would do is relabel their ideology.
It was the look of someone swallowing a tough red pill; the fight is futile.
This was, incidentally, when I stopped paying attention to MRAs and started paying more attention to MGTOW content. The world started making a lot more sense from then on.
i remember once in school, when our female teacher was showing us a magazine, where socialism was praised, with all the pros and cons and a guy next to me completely destroyed this utopia, while she was roling her eyes lol
it was really funny to watch, at the end i said to him "you da man" and gave him a fist bump lol
With the left, everything good is us and everything bad is them. It’s very simplistic. Like when Bill Maher said that Stalin was a right winger, it just boils down to us good them bad. That the left contradicts itself minute to minute doesn’t matter to them, they do not care about the truth.
Socialism is government ownership and control of the means of production, but what is the means of production, what does that mean?
Simply put people are the means of production, it is you. All production is created by people, socialism is government ownership of the people, socialism and indeed all collectivist forms of governance is slavery to the state.
The problem is the left has controlled the media and entertainment industry for so long even normies have a bias that the left are good and the right is selfish.
Lefties do not care about helping the truly disadvantaged, which to me would be the mentally or physically handicapped. They want to take from the productive and give to the unproductive. From what I've seen it's usually right wingers, often religious people, who adopt and fight for the mentally handicapped. The left just says they should have been aborted. I think the left are jealous of the mentally challenged because they get taken care of while the stupid and lazy left are supposed to fend for themselves.
The right thinks it's better to treat non-retarded adults as adult and loser have themselves to blame. Yeah maybe their parents were shit but Ben Carson came from a poor background but he didn't puss out on himself. He worked hard and became a neurosurgeon. He did it because he motivated himself, and the right thinks the best think is to motivate people to be better then they are. But the left says that's mean because it's ok to be a loser and just because someone is a loser doesn't mean they shouldn't have a middle class lifestyle.
The left pretends to be compassionate but they are selfish. The left is stupid because they claim to hate the rich but will kiss the asses of the tech elite and Hollywood idiots, they won't riots in the gated communities of Democratic politicians like Nancy Pelosi or the Clintons.
The left claims to be smart when they are dumb, claim to be peaceful when they are violent. They claim to be tolerant but hate all with differing opinions. They say many lies.
I think the "rational" left are just right wingers who think being a right winger is a bad thing, so you get guys like Tim Pool who say "it's the far far far left who are for socialism". He's smart but stuck on a mental hurdle.
You are missing for forest for the trees. The republicans are NOT your saviors. Republicans/Democrats, Left/Right SAME DAM DIFFERENCE! If you refuse to accept observable realty, then you are just apart of the system exploiting left/right divide for FINANCIAL GAIN (weather its on main steam media or new media) just like the Dems/Repubs party and politicians do.
I got to say that I find self-sacrifice to be admirable but I am referring to true self sacrifice, it is admirable as it is scarse and only very few individuals, and individuals is the most important part here, get to be at that stage, not this easy feel good crap that makes useless worms fell nice inside with their meaningless actions, yeah share some shitty hashtag or put some stupid flag in your facebook profile every time a massacre occurs that´s the way to change the world in their heads, this kind of half-baked homemade humanitarians that always feel so good, so right inside are the most self-indulging and retardatarian parasites we have in our societies and their collective actions do more harm than a thousand trucks of peace.
Ayn Rand was Capitalism personified and rejected both the left and right. She was the only rational woman ever, before or since. I definitely recommend reading her works even if I dont agree with everything she thought.
What is this, multiple instances of quality content within one day?
Don't get me wrong, the segments are entertaining, and they have their place, but they sacrifice quality for the sake of quantity and entertainment.
Jews are hyper collectivist. They have 7,000 interest organizations in the US alone. Jews, and their gate keepers like Juden Peterstein, tell white people to be individuals - it stops white people fighting back.
Good job at 3m30s on catching these commies trying to rebrand themselves as Libertarians, TFM. They're trying to hang that "Under New Management"™ sign on their shop window. Nice try, regressive shitheads!
For the left the agenda is paramount above all else. To them, any means to accomplish their agenda is right and moral. They don't have to rationalized their meaning, they know what they mean. For them, there is no grappling with their morals, they have replaced their morals with their agenda. For them, there is no soul searching, because they have already sold theirs to be part of their great consensus.
Milton Friedman- amazing speaker, but that was a different time. In his videos where he goes up against leftist, there was civility. I guess the left feels that they are so close to their goal they can drop the civility charade and let their true self show without fear.
My life is spiraling downward
I couldn't get enough money to go to the Blood Red Romance and Suffocate Me Dry concert
It sucks cause they play some of my favorite songs like "Stab my heart because I love you" and "Rip apart my soul" and of course "Stabby rip stab stab" And It doesn't help that I couldn't get my hair to do that flippy thing either... like that guy from that band can do... some days...
I'm an emo kid, non-conforming as can be
You'd be non-conforming too if you look just like me
I have paint on my nails and makeup on my face
I'm almost emo enough to start shaving my legs
Cause I feel real deep when I'm dressing in drag
I call it freedom of expression, most just call me a fag
'Cause our dudes look like chicks and chicks look like dykes
Cause emo is one step below transvestite
Stop my breathing and slit my throat
I must be emo
I don't jump around when I go to shows
I must be emo
I'm dark and sensitive with low self esteem
The way I dress makes everyday feel like Halloween
I have no real problems but I like to make believe
I stole my sister's mascara now I'm grounded for a week
Sulking and writing poetry are my hobbies
I can't get through a hawthorne heights album without sobbing
Girls keep breaking up with me, it's never any fun
They say they already have a pussy, they don't need another one
Stop my breathing and slit my throat
I must be emo
I don't jump around when I go to shows
I must be emo
Dye in my hair and polish on my toes
I must be emo
I play guitar and write suicide notes
I must be emo
My life is just a black abyss... Ya know... It's so dark. And it's suffocating me, grabbing a hold of me and tightening it's grip, tighter than a pair of my little sisters jeans... Which look great on me by the way.
When I get depressed I cut my wrist in every direction
Hearing songs about getting dumped gives me an erection
I write in a live journal and wear thick rimmed glasses
I tell my friends I bleed black and cry during classes
I'm just a bad, cheap imitation of goth
You can read me "Catcher in the Rye" and watch me jack off
I wear skin tight clothes while hating my life
If I said that I like girls I'd only be half right
I look like I'm dead and dress like a homo
I must be emo
Screw xbox I play old school Nintendo
I must be emo
I like to whine and hate my parentals
I must be emo
Me and my friends all look like clones
I must be emo
My parents don't get me ya know
They think I'm gay just because they saw me kiss a guy... well, a couple guys ...but still, I mean it's the 2000's, can't two...or 4 dudes make out with each other without being gay
I mean, chicks dig that kinda thing anyways
I don't know diary, sometimes I think you are the only one that gets me...you're my best friend
I feel like tacos
In a personal liberty and labelling, they are extremely individualist.
The problem is that they forget that economic freedom is a PIECE of individualism.
Those 72,000 genders and different kinds of labels to “win the oppression olympics” is a form of individualism, of an extreme try to make everyone so unique, that they try to bend the laws of nature and human behaviour in order to be individualistic.
I suspect we're talking about Tim Poole (I'm only naming him because other have already identified him in the comments). I am subscribed to him. His criticism of the left is fairly good but damn he talks some crap. I was so pissed off at something he said in his 'Gender Diversity Initiatives backfire' video that I wrote a near-1000 word rant lol. I almost unsubscribed also. I decided not to because at least he does keep me updated on what goes on in America (I am from the UK).
As to whether he is lying or stupid, I have to admit he does seem to genuinely try to be neutral in his reporting and he seems a genuinely good person. So I have to conclude he is stupid. He is unable to reason effectively. He reasons emotionally rather than logically.
He is dead set on his nonsense that people from poorer families are being held back against rich people. Bullshit. In the West there is no excuse. They just have to work hard. That's all. Everyone has access to internet. These 'under-privileged' people should learn some skills instead of acting like victims ffs. You might have to work harder but who said life is exactly fair? It's impossible to be exactly fair. If you want a good life in the West there is no one stopping you. I know this because I came from a poor family who had f-all. Also my family are from Pakistan. So I am one of these 'disadvantaged' people Tim Poole is talking about. I have never experienced racism or any form of discrimination in the workplace. I think I have experienced one incidence of very minor racism (some drunk dickhead talking shit on the train). What did I do about it? I just shrugged and carried on with my day laughing to myself that the punk was a loser who is probably on welfare while I earn a very good salary as a self employed person.
Very few places in this day and age discriminate. If you have the skills you will get a job to match. It might be you have to move to a different city. Boo f***ing hoo. I did.
Learn how to write a CV. Start by flipping burgers if you have never worked a job. Start somewhere. Anywhere. Don't just sit on your asse. My first job was a Saturday boy in a cinema. Believe me that was not glamorous.
Tim Poole really got under my skin with the comment he made about bias against 'under-privileged' people. He does a major disservice to all the people who had nothing and made something of themselves through hard work.
You can tell by the length of this how worked up I am about this topic lol.
I agree with most of what was said. I don't believe people should be forced under threat of prison and therefore death if one is not compliant, into giving up what is theirs for others. Sure though, we will always need a tax for the ESSENTIALS, but supporting a woman's 27th abortion, is not essential. Supporting research to see what college has the hottest cheerleaders is not essential. Supporting the defense of your country is an essential. But I have faith in the voluntary generosity of others, look at people like Donald Trump. He's donated tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to charities, has personally helped others less fortunate, looks out for his employees and has sacrificed his place on the forbes top 100 to be hated and ridiculed by half the USA in order to help the country. You'll always have the Scrooges, but there are a lot of people who are truly generous. As for the people who cry for help while sitting on their asses in front of the TV, fuck em, sink or swim motherfucker
Ok as the "Leftist MGTOW" in the group let me be clear, if you believe the far right is for individualism you are either lying or you are stupid, if you believe the far left is for individualism you are either lying or you are stupid, notice NIETHER side is for individualism. Individualism is a BYPRODUCT of our political system. I remember days of the left being for individual rights, yes I know a far time ago, but when the right was knocking on people's bedrooms demanding they "conform" to "their" norms, who was in the individual's corner, the left was. But you know who is in the individual's corner when it came to business issues most of the time, the right. Notice I said both political sides have supported individualism, but in different areas and both have supported collectivism in different areas. If the right wing when I was growing up had their way, they would have kicked out all of the "other" religions, different "types" of people, and endless other xenophobic behavior; however because they lacked "power" they had to change their positions, because they did not have a monopoly in the government. Now the left had a near monopoly in government for some time and could move the Overton window left. This imbalance of power led to collectivism over individualism, either side would do the same thing. Only when neither side has power can the individual exist, only then can a man "run between the rain drops", there is freedom in balance not imbalance. Stardust (thinking-ape) talks about this, and if you want a more "neutral druid" approach I suggest you check out his videos on it.
Here are three quotes -- there are many more if one performs even the most perfunctory of searches -- for out Lefty "friends" to ponder, all variations on the same theme: (1) “Society's needs come before the individual's needs.” ... Adolph Hitler; (2) “We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ...” President Bill Clinton, USA Today, March 11, 1993, Page 2A; (3) “We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society.” ... Hillary, 1993 Clinton. Yes sir, the Left sure is into the individuality thing with both feet, aren't they?
that anime drawing of celstina is way more sexier and attractive than most real life modern women you see today.
I was tricked into believing in altruism for a long time during my youth (and super hero themes don't help), but when I took the red pill I finally started realising that that mentality got me no where. ideas like altruism are weapons that are way more deadlier than a knife or a gun
You're not the only one who've met someone who claimed that the left stands for individualism. I'm a friend with a guy on FB, who's very individualist and a hardcore follower of Rand's philosophy, yet he supports the left (even the communist). I tried explaining to him that the left is anything but individualist, and I'm surprised to hear his reason why he is in bed with the left. His reasoning is that the current right wing govt is suppressing the leftists and their institutions, and the left actually stands for liberty and individualism.
And the title of this video is exactly the sentence that came in my mind when I was having a debate with him "Either he's lying or he's is stupid".
OK so he's right on the idea that morality is subjective, but that says nothing about Marxism being individualist or not. You may perceive Marxism as moral or immoral, but that doesn't prove it to be individualist.
+Turd Flinging Monkey that's kinda what I said actually. That professor committed a non sequitr fallacy when speaking about it. His argument was I think along this line
1. People usually judge capitalism and socialism as moral or immoral.
2. Morality is relative and depends on individuals.
3. So socialism is individualist.
His first premise is true, second premise is partially true. But his conclusion doesn't follow the premise. And yes, I agree Marxism is the opposite of individualism.
All this Right, Left, Centre, and whatever other political etc. labels there are, are meaningless. People are just people. Their supposed political stance does not define the person. Especially, when people are usually (unless they're really nutso) a mixture of all different kinds of morals, political stances, etc. Where I come from, I've never even heard of Left/Right until this recent feminist blowup in the usa and talk of antifa etc.. As far as I know, they're just terms used in the usa -- every country uses their own labels. It's better to talk in terms of followers, thinkers, conformists, etc.
They are trying to make the Truth into a lie......and a lie into truth.
Ex. They want to push women to lead and men to acquiesce to women.
How does one pass along a deception like this? Thru Witchcraft.....
This is how the Socialist behooves the masses.
Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf. "I would have called our party the German COMMUNIST party, but the name COMMUNIST was already taken, so I chose "The German Workers National Socialist Party"...... So the socialists and the communists had running street battles between them.
I rest my case.
Names don't matter a fuck.
There is only decent and constructive, or indecent and deconstructive. Honesty or Dishoesty. Forthright or Deceitful.
we are destroying the fondations to build a new society based on morals and feelings. those retards are thinking the left is about the self when in fact its Always been about communism. if you look at those sjw's and die hard feminist , they preach collectivism and the enslavement of man ! HOW IS THIS SELFLESSNESS IF YOU DEPEND ON THE ENSLAVEMENT OF A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS FOR SELF ?
The Right => Makers. Creators. Most charitable. The Individual. To become strong and independent is a virtue.
The Left => Takers. Parasites. Least charitable. The Collective. To become weak and dependent is a virtue.
...There is a reason why Europe is now politically shifting towards the Right. The Left have failed, many have been hurt, and people have had enough.
Hey Monkey thanks for educating this Monk from an infested Europe.... when Europe falls, i will come to the U.S. where there are still Monkeys prepared to teach Bonobo's and hate beards to not mess with us! Stay well!
Here is another subject where I disagree with you.
I see that you define the right and the left as libertarianism and authoritarianism respectively. Seems to be an American thing... I think it is a consequence of your two party system.
From my perspective, and probably also his perspective there are three positions rather than two: libertarianism which is individualism from the perspective of competent people who thrive in freadom, the left which is individualism from the perspective of incompetent people who need handouts to survive and the right which considers it a requirement that some sacrifices be made by people in the present to uphold and enrich society in the long term.
I do not consider leftists to be collectivists. They wear the skin of collectivism to make pretexts to justify their actions to those around them and, if you ask me, to themselves but it is obvious that they do not serve society. They only serve themselves. And their ideas cause harm to society but they are not ashamed of being its infection.
Only the right preeches true altruism and self improvement.
I am absolutely sick of it. I started conceal carrying a Glock 19 five years ago. I’m just waiting until somebody crosses the rules of engagement and I can legally shoot them. I hope I’m out numbered so I can shoot all of them. These people are animals they are enemies of humanity. I think they all need to die. I’m over it. I’m done trying to teach these fools about reality. I’m ready to just get rid of them and I mean get rid of them.
I know that sounds really cold and heartless, but this is what is necessary. I don’t see these people as humans anymore. I see them as zombies that are ripe for a headshot.
Actually the Left stand for individualism, individualism where they a free from the norms of family, tradition, religion and the society as a whole, the last part doesn't make sense considering its collective nature of course. Which can be summarized as "You're either lying or stupid" which is what Sigrid Undset, who in later dates have been seen as reactionary and anti-feminist, criticized other writes, espesally female ones in the 20th century because of their Marxist ideals.
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